Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 58 Location: Cornwall UK Karma: 2
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #16 on Oct 29, 2008, 10:54am »
Hiya Bob Yeah likewise I was beginning to think that I was the only person in the UK this had happened to.But with your good self and Matt who is in Cardiff I believe that makes three of us at least. I read your earlier post and see you've been sent from pillar to post with no joy.Mate I feel for you. My GP acknowledged that the tendon pain was down to the Cipro almost immediately and was equally quick to tell me that there was no treatment and nothing he could do about it.I was incredulous that they could unleash this poison on an unsuspecting public knowing that if it all went pear shaped and you're adversely affected you're basically on your own and the responsibility for fixing the damage is not their problem. I did file a yellow card report a couple of days after I realised what had happened.That seems to be the only course of action available to us in the UK.In my initial anger at being floxed I wanted somebody to be held responsible, principally Bayer. I wished It was like in the States where there may at least be some recourse to the law but quickly realised that there's no chance of that happening and that nobody is likely to be made accountable. Nobody I have had dealings with NHS wise seems to have heard of Quins let alone the damage they do, talk about not waving but drowning. I have spent most of the months since being floxed either in bed or lying on the sofa crippled up with pain and have been utilising the time contacting everybody I can think of and posting on every appropriate site I can find trying to get the word out about these drugs, makes me feel that I'm, albeit in a tiny way,fighting back somehow. Currently I'm having a really dodgy spell with big increases in pain levels,legs,hips, pelvis and shoulders giving me serious stick but am clinging to the hope that things will improve over the coming months. How are things with you presently? I see you are coming up on a year out and i hope you're seeing some improvement of late. By the way did you get the Prostatitis sorted? I've got it running in tandem with the ADR'S just to make my life doubly torturous. All Best Wishes Jeff
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 58 Location: Cornwall UK Karma: 2
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #17 on Jan 18, 2009, 11:00am »
Hi all Thought I would post a eight month update. Well the tearing,burning pain at the back of the knees and the calves seems to be improving quite well and I can now walk about two hundred yards on a good day with not too much carry over pain the next day.Unfortunately this improvement has been offset by an increase in muscle pain levels elsewhere.Its almost like this poison is creeping up my body so aching pain in the thighs,hips,buttocks,lower back, both shoulders and the upper arms is the current order of the day. When I wake in the mornings it feels like I've been run over by a truck . I think that the open ended duration of the effects is one of the hardest things to deal with,if you knew that in another six months you were going to be ok it would provide some light at the end of the tunnel and something to work towards. However it seems that we are not to be granted even this small encouragement. They say patience is a virtue but boy its hard to stop it wearing thin.I guess some improvement is better than none so I am thankful for small mercies. Best wishes to all Jeff
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #18 on Jul 29, 2009, 10:06pm »
This information on teeth is interesting as I have developed some sensitivity in upper right teeth after my floxing in december 08 and more lately in june july. Since virtually every joint in my body was affected and I wound up with Cipro induced osteoarthritis I wonder if it could affect the teeth or jaw bone also. I have a dental x ray scheduled this friday as a new patient but likely quinolone damage would not show.
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 46 Location: New York Karma: 4
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #20 on Jul 31, 2009, 6:18pm »
I too have had many issues with my teeth, from severe pain and numbing to tingling I have had every test, x-ray, exam on several ocassions All were nothing My dentist whom has been only kind to me during my panic attacks at his office, agrees with me that is was just the neuropathy that I have It does get better
Joined: May 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 99 Location: California Karma: 7
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #21 on Nov 5, 2009, 12:42am »
Hi Jeff,
Just read your story & I truly empathize with you. I sent you a personal message today discussing the little exercises that I have been doing & I wanted to add that I will continue to keep you updated as I begin new exercises. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Are you seeing any improvements at all? Are you able to get up & down the stairs ok? I am excited to hear that you have ditched the crutches finally after months of having to utilize them! That is encouraging (not to say that I think that your pain and suffering is gone~I know how that goes) but an improvement is an improvement and I think that it is vital to our emotional, mental, and physical well being that we acknowledge each small improvement along the way. Talk to you soon. ~Mox
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 58 Location: Cornwall UK Karma: 2
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #22 on Nov 5, 2009, 8:04am »
Hi Mox Many thanks for your kind words, empathy and the PM, it means a lot to me. Have just re-read my post from back in January when I thought things were turning for the better. That has transpired to be somewhat optimistic, that bit of light at the end of the tunnel was just a oncoming train . As I go into month eighteen of this sorry mess I am still locked in a daily battle with the tendon issues and although things are way better than they were say a year ago the pain makes functioning on any sort of level nigh on impossible. One disturbing aspect at the moment is I am still getting 'new' areas of the body becoming involved.For instance I've had no problems with my ankles up until a fortnight ago now they have decided to join the party, weirdness reigns. How this can be happening a year and a half after ingesting the drug is just beyond me..... The positives ?, well the bits of me on which I've had extensive acupuncture namely the neck,right rotator cuff and right side S.I. ligament have all shown a reduction in painfulness and now complain only if 'overused' (overuse for me would be inconsequential use to normal folk). So I guess my plan now will be to switch focus to the non-responsive areas particularly the hamstring origins and insertions,elbows, left side back ligaments and keep on trying to edge towards some sort of normalcy. As for supplementation having tried just about everything feasible I've now settled on just a few, my current protocol for what its worth is: Vit C as magnesium ascorbate Glucosamine,chondrotin,msm combo Cissus quadrangularis
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 188 Karma: 6
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #23 on Nov 5, 2009, 10:19am »
Hi Jeff:
Sorry to hear about your ongoing struggles. I have a question for you. Do you watch what you eat ? Are you eating chicken at all ? I don't think you should. Are you reading the ingredients to make sure you're not ingesting soy or soy lecithin. Are you eating wheat and dairy ? A no, no with your kind of pain. Do you make sure that all the meats you eat have no antibiotics in them ? Do you watch your intake of carbs such as starchy vegetables, rice and sweet fruits.
If not, I think you need to change your eating habits. Stay with your modified diet for a few weeks before you decide whether it's making a difference. Stick to a high protein (good grass fed antibiotics free organic meats and wild caught fish) with green vegetables with lots of good oils, garlic and onions. Try to eat the vegetables raw. Only one piece of fruit a day and see how you feel.
Also I cannot recommend ADVA CLEAR by metagenics highly enough.Look it up. It's an excellent product. If you're taking a high dose of vitamin c ascorbate (more than 1000 mgs) you should make sure to replenish your copper. I think you should add a good mineral supplement to your regimen and make sure you get at least 2mgs of copper a day. I know most floxies emphasize magnesium, but I think all minerals are important and copper in particular.
Please pm me if you have any questions. I would be more than happy to tell you what has worked for me.
Hang in there. Focus on the improvements. Random pains here and there are bound to pop up. Try to ignore them. You are getting better.
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,835 Karma: 60
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #24 on Nov 5, 2009, 2:34pm »
Hi Jeff, so sorry that you are having a rough time. If able to toleate, the ADVA Clear from Metagenics is an excellent product. It will gently help detoxing, and is restorative. Are you taking Fish Oils, and Curcumin? Both are very helpful. Fish Oils from Eskimo 3 was recommended to me by my Functional Medical Doctor/Nutritionist. I was taking V-Pure because of allergies to fish. I started on Curcumin recently as this is also helpful with inflammation. Find below two studies concerning Fish Oils and Curcumin. The first about EPA/DHA is a generalized study, but there are other studies and meta analysis of Fish Oils and joints health. Wishing you strength and recovery.
Biofactors. 2009 May-Jun;35(3):266-72. Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and human health outcomes.
Calder PC, Yaqoob P.
Institute of Human Nutrition, School of Medicine, University of Southampton, MP887 Southampton General Hospital, Southampton, UK. pcc@soton.ac.uk
Current intakes of very long chain omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are low in most individuals living in Western countries. A good natural source of these fatty acids is seafood, especially oily fish. Fish oil capsules contain these fatty acids too. Very long chain omega-3 fatty acids are readily incorporated from capsules into transport, functional, and storage pools. This incorporation is dose-dependent and follows a kinetic pattern that is characteristic for each pool. At sufficient levels of incorporation, EPA and DHA influence the physical nature of cell membranes and membrane protein-mediated responses, eicosanoid generation, cell signaling and gene expression in many different cell types. Through these mechanisms, EPA and DHA influence cell and tissue physiology, and the way cells and tissues respond to external signals. In most cases, the effects seen are compatible with improvements in disease biomarker profiles or in health-related outcomes. As a result, very long chain omega-3 fatty acids play a role in achieving optimal health and in protection against disease. Long chain omega-3 fatty acids protect against cardiovascular morbidity and mortality, and might be beneficial in rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel diseases, childhood learning, and behavior, and adult psychiatric and neurodegenerative illnesses. DHA has an important structural role in the eye and brain, and its supply early in life is known to be of vital importance. On the basis of the recognized health improvements brought about by long chain omega-3 fatty acids, recommendations have been made to increase their intake. (c) 2009 International Union of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Inc.
PMID: 19391122 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Interleukin-1beta-induced extracellular matrix degradation and glycosaminoglycan release is inhibited by curcumin in an explant model of cartilage inflammation.
Clutterbuck AL, Mobasheri A, Shakibaei M, Allaway D, Harris P.
Division of Veterinary Medicine, School of Veterinary Medicine and Science, University of Nottingham, Leicestershire, United Kingdom. Abigail.Clutterbuck@nottingham.ac.uk
Osteoarthritis (OA) is a degenerative and inflammatory disease of synovial joints that is characterized by the loss of articular cartilage, for which there is increasing interest in natural remedies. Curcumin (diferuloylmethane) is the main polyphenol in the spice turmeric, derived from rhizomes of the plant Curcuma longa. Curcumin has potent chemopreventive properties and has been shown to inhibit nuclear factor kappaB-mediated inflammatory signaling in many cell types, including chondrocytes. In this study, normal articular cartilage was harvested from metacarpophalangeal and metatarsophalangeal joints of eight horses, euthanized for reasons other than research purposes, to establish an explant model mimicking the inflammatory events that occur in OA. Initially, cartilage explants (N= 8) were stimulated with increasing concentrations of the proinflammatory cytokine IL-1beta to select effective doses for inducing cartilage degeneration in the explant model. Separate cartilage explants were then cotreated with IL-1beta at either 10 ng/mL (n= 3) or 25 ng/mL (n= 3) and curcumin (0.1 micromol/L, 0.5 micromol/L, 1 micromol/L, 10 micromol/L, and 100 micromol/L). After 5 days, the percentage of glycosaminoglycan (GAG) release from the explants was assessed using a dimethylmethylene blue colorimetric assay. Curcumin (100 micromol/L) significantly reduced IL-1beta-stimulated GAG release in the explants by an average of 20% at 10 ng/mL and 27% at 25 ng/mL back to unstimulated control levels (P < 0.001). Our results suggest that this explant model effectively simulates the proinflammatory cytokine-mediated release of articular cartilage components seen in OA. Furthermore, the evidence suggests that the inflammatory cartilage explant model is useful for studying the effects of curcumin on inflammatory pathways and gene expression in IL-1beta-stimulated chondrocytes.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 58 Location: Cornwall UK Karma: 2
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #25 on Nov 5, 2009, 8:21pm »
Hi Allergicgirl & Beebs Many thanks for your support and the suggestions that may assist me in the way forward. As far as diet goes I guess I may be a little bit unusual in that I have been a vegetarian for nearly forty years now so consumption of meat and fish are not an issue for me. I eat little wheat or dairy (cheese maybe once a week ) and have avoided soy like the plague since getting screwed by the FQ's. Basically I eat a diet with loads of veg,nuts,seeds,legumes and all that other good stuff. I have thought about a possible need for more protein and to that end tried supplementing with whey powder which paradoxically made me worse I can't say that I've personally noticed any correlation between the eating of fruit and a worsening of pain levels and don't really understand how there could be one, are we saying that fructose is dodgy ? Thanks for the tip about possible copper depletion I will bear that in mind. All my very best wishes Jeff
Hi Allergicgirl & Beebs Many thanks for your support and the suggestions that may assist me in the way forward. As far as diet goes I guess I may be a little bit unusual in that I have been a vegetarian for nearly forty years now so consumption of meat and fish are not an issue for me. I eat little wheat or dairy (cheese maybe once a week ) and have avoided soy like the plague since getting screwed by the FQ's. Basically I eat a diet with loads of veg,nuts,seeds,legumes and all that other good stuff. I have thought about a possible need for more protein and to that end tried supplementing with whey powder which paradoxically made me worse I can't say that I've personally noticed any correlation between the eating of fruit and a worsening of pain levels and don't really understand how there could be one, are we saying that fructose is dodgy ? Thanks for the tip about possible copper depletion I will bear that in mind. All my very best wishes Jeff
Jeff: does your whey protein contains soya? Amino Acids? If yes which ones? Many of us can't take soya or some amino acids worsen some symptoms.
There may be a ink with fructose, I was reading the other day, that drinking a lot of smoothies is not that healthy after all. It can deplete of certain enzymes, make the body too alkaline etc... and when the body is too alkaline, viruses thrive.
Therefore, drinking a lot of citrus juice or high Vit C in winter months is ill advised, because the body, becomes more alkaline in winter months, as claimed by the MD.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 188 Karma: 6
Re: Cipro Strikes Again « Reply #27 on Nov 6, 2009, 4:08am »
Hi Jeff:
Yes,I'm saying fructoce and even too much complex carbs is dodgy particularly for people with worsening symptoms or very slow recoveries. Ideally I think we should avoid eating fruits all together and limit our intake of complex carbs to a minimum. Of course, you don't want to lose too much weight, but optimally I think a diet high in animal protein and green vegetables is the best.
In my opinion, a vegetarian diet is not the best diet to have to aid in the recovery. Legumes don't provide complete amino acids and I think all the amino acids are crucial. If you won't, can't modify your diet to include animal protein, I think it's essential to supplement. Even under the best of circumstances, vegetarians have nutritional deficiencies. In our case, I think it's crucial to supplement. If you can't tolerate whey protein and I can't either, you should try rice protein. I use a brand called SUN WARRIORS. Check it out.
In my view, and I'm sure some people will disagree with me, the diet we eat is the most essential element of our recovery. All the supplements we ingest is just gravy. Nothing is going to really replace a whole foods, organic, protein rich diet.
Too much vitamin C depletes copper which is very important for tendons, not to mention the fact that fqs chelate all minerals. I think your vegetarian diet coupled with your anemic supplement regimen may be contributing to your ongoing pain. If it were me, I would be looking for a good piece of steak starting tomorrow morning...
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