Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 23 Karma: 0
Re: Klonopin, Vids, & Info « Result #1 Today at 10:17pm »
Alan, make sure you drink lots of water after your acupuncture treatments. In my past experience some acupuncturists are better than others and it may take some time to notice a difference.
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 519 Location: Cardiff Karma: 11
Re: MANUKA HONEY « Result #3 Today at 9:05pm »
I always buy Rowse Manuka honey 10+ always.. Soooo nice! and it CURED my chronic gastritis that i had on and off for 4 years . CUUUUURRREEEDD xD probably was caused by h pylori
Joined: Jan 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 193 Karma: -18
Re: L-carnitine transport and fluoroquinolones « Result #4 Today at 8:21pm »
Carnitin is transported into the cells by mediation of transporters emcoded by the gene OCTN2, They are located in the plasme of the cell membrane Next carnitin is transported into the mitochondria. During this transport carnitin is conjugated with long chain fatty acids. OCTN2 is a gene of which many inborn mutations are known, which are causing an impaired transport of carnitin (in rare cases there is even total transport failure). This kind of disorders is called Primary Carnitin Deficiency. It leads from birth on (if not treated) to very severe physical symptoms, especially in tissues as heart and muscles, which need very much energy. As to a cure of these disorders, gene therapy is very promising, and can already be done for some mutations of this gene. The deficiency is treated by carnitin supplementation and special diets
If the transport of carnitin into the cell is insufficient, then logically the amount of fatty acids conjugated with them and transported into the mitochondria will also be insufficient, resulting in impaired energy production.
I assume, that the alterations in OCTN2 gene expression, caused by the fluoroquinolones, as shown in this research article, will normally disappear and this transporter will function again as before,after the taking of the drug is discontinued. It is known, however,that the fluoroquinolones (and other drugs) may cause gene mutations. So I believe, that it has to be taken into consideration, that in some cases also permanent alterations of the expression of this gene may be the result of the taking of these drugs.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 58 Location: Cornwall UK Karma: 2
Re: MANUKA HONEY « Result #5 Today at 7:05pm »
Hi Velha
Some more info for you:
"It is not as yet fully understood why only some Manuka honey has an antimicrobial property not shared by other honeys. This property is called the Unique Manuka Factor (UMF®) antibacterial property. The presence of this activity can be detected by laboratory testing, which is conducted by the Honey Research Unit at the University of Waikato in New Zealand. Honey that is tested and verified to have a level of 10 or more is given a UMF rating and is referred to as 'Active'. The UMF rating is your key indicator as to the strength of the antibacterial effect. A rating of 10 or more is considered to be suitable for therapeutic medical use. "
levaquin 21 day 250mg with NSAID in march of 2009 Neurological symptoms Burning, tingling, and loss of feeling. Structural pain and stiffness Cramping and fasciculations Dryness Insomnia Anxiety Fatigue Just not right in the head
If there is a Carnitine dysfunction, would this not affect fatty acid transport into the mitochondrial matrix? Sorry, I am not a scientist, it is quite difficult and complex, aghhh.
Scientific articles concerning fatty acids oxidation are focused on inherited genetic markers rather than on acquired. The mechanism, symptoms and causes differ and manifestation of symptoms vary.
Would this account for some of us having difficulties with Omega 3, 6 and 9? I can't seem to metabolize these. With EPA/DHA - the symptoms with me are some type of strange breathing problems. Omega 6 increases/triggers seizures, and other symptoms, which I can't quite remember.
I read on one site that those with FOD should avoid oils. Unfortunately, I can't find it.
It could be also that we are very low on Vitamin C, which is needed to synthethesize Carnitine. Or some other metabolic dysfunction with Vitamin C and Carnitine which then results in difficulties with fatty acids, resulting in metabolic syndromes?
What is causing altered glucose metabolism for so many of us?
Concerning Imaging Contrast Dye, my own experience is that it caused my kidneys to fail, and three others I know suffered the same as well as hypothyroidism, and severe hypoglycaemia. There is a post somewhere on the forum concerning contrast dye. If I remember correctly, in some instances, contrast dye can cause life threatening hypoglycaemia. Looking at the lit on contrast dye, it is made out to be safe, but far from it, it is not!!
I was injected with Thallium twice. I can't help thinking that it contributed to being debilitated and iller!!
I will post more about contrast dye and the possible damage which may take years to manifest.
Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2009 Apr 1;236(1):59-70. Epub 2009 Jan 24. Tl(I) and Tl(III) activate both mitochondrial and extrinsic pathways of apoptosis in rat pheochromocytoma (PC12) cells.
Hanzel CE, Verstraeten SV.
Department of Biological Chemistry, IIMHNO (UBA) and IQUIFIB (UBA-CONICET), School of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, University of Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Thallium (Tl) is a highly toxic metal though yet its mechanisms are poorly understood. Previously, we demonstrated that rat pheochromocytoma (PC12) cells exposure to thallous (Tl(I)) or thallic (Tl(III)) cations leads to mitochondrial damage and reduced cell viability. In the present work we comparatively characterized the possible pathways involved in Tl(I)- and Tl(III)- (10-100 muM) mediated decrease in PC12 cells viability. We observed that these cations do not cause cell necrosis but significantly increased the number of cells with apoptotic features. Both cations lead to Bax oligomerization and caused apoptosis inducing factor (AIF), endonuclease G (Endo G), and cytochrome c release from mitochondria, but they did not activate caspase dependent DNAse (CAD). Tl(I)- and Tl(III)-dependent caspases 9 and 3 activation followed similar kinetics, with maximal effects at 18 h of incubation. In addition, Tl(I) promoted phosphatidylserine (PS) exposure. Tl(III) induced 2- and 18-fold increase in Fas content and caspase 8 activity, respectively. Together, experimental results show that Tl(I) and Tl(III) induce PC12 cells apoptosis, although differential pathways are involved. While Tl(I)-mediated cell apoptosis was mainly associated with mitochondrial damage, Tl(III) showed a mixed effect triggering both the intrinsic and extrinsic pathways of apoptosis. These findings contribute to a better understanding of the mechanisms underlying Tl-induced loss of cell viability in PC12 cells. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19371....m&o rdinalpos=3 or http://tinyurl.com/ybrtkgq
Because I tend to read articles written by opponents of steroids, I can't see any benefits of steroid therapy!! Except perhaps if suffering from Addison's disease, but even, then, they may be other options not explored.
I was offered Predisone for allergies, but refused. I didn't want to add more ill health, I know someone in my CFS group who is now in a wheelchair, very debilitated following a course of steroids.
Some report increase of CNS and even psychosis with steroids, inhaling, cream or whatever else, even on low dose or a single dose!
I may be a stuck in the mud, and a merchant of gloom concerning medications, the fact is that a large percentage of the population are not genetically perfect. I hasten to add that my healthy friends all disagree with me, and often take meds for headaches, or pain here & there. They give cough meds to their children to my horror, paracetamol for fevers, and vaccines for "protection."
But for 30 years we've known that steroids can routinely cause over activity of the adrenal hormones, which produces Cushing's disease, characterized by a fat abdomen and face, and buffalo hump in the back of the neck, high blood pressure and muscle weakness. They can also cause muscle wasting, hyperglycemia, water retention, skin atrophy, bruising and stretch marks, insomnia, serious mood changes, symptoms of schizophrenia or manic depression ("steroid psychosis"), osteoporosis, cataracts or glaucoma, menstrual problems, impotence, loss of libido or even allergic shock, recurrent thrush of the mouth, and diabetes (Physician's Desk Reference).
Side effects common
Gasp, the British Group against Steroid Prescriptions, recently polled its 15,000 members to document just how common these side effects are. In their study, they discovered that at least [color=Blue]70 per cent or more[/color] of the group suffered weight gain, bruising, pain (to back and legs) even though steroids are routinely prescribed for back pain muscle weakness and mood swings. Two thirds complained of moon face, headaches, fluid retention, slowness in healing, thinning skin, depression, and headaches. A full half reported they'd developed osteoporosis, and the same percentage, memory loss, headaches, light sensitivity and loss of sex drive. A third complained of buffalo hump, stretch marks and high blood pressure. Almost a quarter had cataracts. Over half the women complained of facial hair growth, and a quarter had period problems. Others complained of psychosis, damage to the immune system, angina and hair loss.
Most significantly, more than half the members had never been warned of these potential side effects. In another survey, of 104 patients, only 63 (or less than two thirds) recalled any advice from their doctor on potential side effects (BMJ, 1996; 312: 542-3).
Beebs,
Thanks for this. I know there are wayyyy more questions than answers. I was just taking the lazy way (hoping you could easily refer me to some info rather than looking myself) out by asking. Though I do think our discussion here are so helpful, they lead us to good information and maybe eventually we can put this all together.
I was particularly concerned about the oils, I take flax oil as it helps inflammation and skin for me - fish oil never helped (have taken this for years). Now fish oil seems to hurt (increases inflammation symptoms), and it left me wondering if all those years of flax oil supplementation could have taxed my poor sad mitochondria with more than they can handle...I just wish there was a clear answer to these things. It still seems to help, so I will continue with the flax oil...
I have contacted a mito specialist in the area, not easy to get an appointment. But I will continue to pursue - he requested I have all sorts of exclusionary testing prior to coming it (I'm not having any tests which require exposure to anything, I'm not even sure if I am comfortable with MRI - any thoughts?).
So is thallium in contrast dye (I will look this up as soon as I leave here), I did not k now that - I had high levels on a urine toxic elements test and assumed it might be from pesticides on my fruit (though I buy organic, I always doubt that large shiny perfect green apple was grown with little help). Because I had my first exposure to this - oral and injected with suspected appendicitis (not reasonable really, but they have to protect themselves by checking this) last spring...
The one good thing that has come out of this entire experience is that i am MORE than cautious with my children now - I was taking a cautious vaccine approach with my first, now two. I am taking a NO vaccine approach with my second.
Re: HELP! Stop the breakdown of cartilage? « Result #10 Today at 6:30am »
Hi,
My suggestion is to read, and keep reading. Look into cartilage breakdown and recontruction. Read about metalloproteases and how to inhibit them. Consider more nutritional support.
I'm sorry I don't have much to offer directly, as this was not one of my main ADR's (yet), but what I did find out so far is that from reading around this forum I recieved hints of things that seemed relevant to me, I researched them further and applied them to the best of my capability (I am suffering from mitochondrial failure with associated CFS - cognitive, fatigue, numbness, digestive - basically when everything is wrong with you for no obvious reason) and I have been seeing improvements!!
We are all individuals, but we can benefit from each others experience. Read as much as you can here and see what sounds 'right' to you and go from there.
I hope you are just having an acute reaction and that any chronic symptoms will not appear. Take care Velha
levaquin 21 day 250mg with NSAID in march of 2009 Neurological symptoms Burning, tingling, and loss of feeling. Structural pain and stiffness Cramping and fasciculations Dryness Insomnia Anxiety Fatigue Just not right in the head
Joined: Jan 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 193 Karma: -18
L-carnitine transport and fluoroquinolones « Result #12 Yesterday at 1:06pm »
Concerning carnitine, which is needed for the transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria, things are biochemically very complicated. I found this article lately. The inhibitory effect on of two fluoroquinolones (zwitterion drugs) on a L- carnitine transporter was studied by these researchers. So even if you are able to metabolize carnitine sufficiently, things may go wrong on the level of the transporters. Is it possible that this kind of alterations also can become permanent?
Mechanism of the inhibitory effect of zwitterionic drugs (levofloxacin and grepafloxacin) on carnitine transporter (OCTN2) in Caco-2 cells.Hirano T, Yasuda S, Osaka Y, Kobayashi M, Itagaki S, Iseki K.
Department of Clinical Pharmaceutics and Therapeutics, Graduate School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hokkaido University, Kita-12-jo, Nishi-6-chome, Kita-ku, Sapporo 060-0812, Japan.
L-Carnitine plays an important role in lipid metabolism by facilitating the transport of long-chain fatty acids across the mitochondrial inner membrane followed by fatty acid beta-oxidation. It is known that L-carnitine exists as a zwitterion and that member of the OCTN family play an important role in its transport. The aims of this study were to characterize L-carnitine transport in the intestine by using Caco-2 cells and to elucidate the effects of levofloxacin (LVFX) and grepafloxacin (GPFX), which are zwitterionic drugs, on L-carnitine uptake. Kinetic analysis showed that the half-saturation Na+ concentration, Hill coefficient and Km value of L-carnitine uptake in Caco-2 cells were 10.3 +/- 4.5 mM, 1.09 and 8.0 +/- 1.0 microM, respectively, suggesting that OCTN2 mainly transports L-carnitine. LVFX and GPFX have two pKa values and the existence ratio of their zwitterionic forms is higher under a neutral condition than under an acidic condition. Experiments on the inhibitory effect of LVFX and GPFX on L-carnitine uptake showed that LVFX and GPFX inhibited L-carnitine uptake more strongly at pH 7.4 than at pH 5.5. It was concluded that the zwitterionic form of drugs plays an important role in inhibition of OCTN2 function.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 19 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: Who here "confronted" the doctor who floxed th « Result #13 Yesterday at 12:53pm »
Sarah,
I have forgiven my doctor. I do not believe that there was any malice intended. He is doing what he believes is best yet there is no way to justify not taking a couple extra minutes to warn people about severe or life threatening side effects. It is simply immoral and unethical to take that risk with someone's life even if the odds are one in a thousand. You simply cannot say " we will help 999 and kill 1 and have any credibility what so ever". Especially since, as you said, people trust their doctors and also the fact most people took this drug for simple infections for which safer alternatives were available. I feel the same way as Jeff in the sense that it is my obligations to try to prevent this from happening to others. These doctors are just wrong and there is no viable excuse for it. I will not let this consume me however as my recovery is my main concern now, but I will do what I can.
levaquin 21 day 250mg with NSAID in march of 2009 Neurological symptoms Burning, tingling, and loss of feeling. Structural pain and stiffness Cramping and fasciculations Dryness Insomnia Anxiety Fatigue Just not right in the head
Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 23 Karma: 0
Re: Who here "confronted" the doctor who floxed th « Result #14 Yesterday at 11:23am »
Jeff, I understand what you and others are saying about informing the doctor because then maybe he'll prescribe something else to the next person or should have informed you of the possible serious side effects. Drug reactions for the most part are in the minority, so if a drug is helpful to the majority of people, they are still going to prescribe it until too many issues are reported. Which is why it is important to report it.
What if he had given you a different antibiotic, and you reacted very badly to that one or even died? My point is that no one knows the future.
Doctors are all aware that medications will cause bad side effects, even death for some people yet they still give you these medications on the hopeful statistical knowledge that you won't be in the unfortunate minority. If Doctors are going to warn people about the serious side effects of medications, they would be warning you about almost every drug they prescribe. This is why the side effects and warnings are packaged with the drugs for you to read.
Most people just trust their doctor's opinion and never even look at the possible side effects, specially if they never have had a reaction or a bad reaction to any medication before. Even if they read the side effects, it's usually under the impression that reactions and side effects are rare and that odds are they will be fine. It's sad that these things happen in life but there are no guarantees when anyone takes any kind of medication.
I do think that drugs companies and the FDA need to be stricter on testing and drug approvals. However, there are people who die from drugs that have been on the market for years like Penicillin.
Oh m'gosh I give up lol...I tried to figure it out Everyone ignore my last post I didn't know what I was talking about...which is nothing new!
The other thing sounded totally related how weird. Okay so how do you know if you have FOD? I'm not going to attempt to google this one lol. Thanks for your patience Beebs .
~Mox
Mox: FOD is difficult to diagnose, symptoms differ, and frankly, I have no idea if I have it or not. The more I read, the more complex, it seems to be. And more questions, and more confusion, Difficult for us to know what we are talking about when so much conflicting info and diagnostic limitations.
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,835 Karma: 60
Re: Treatment for PN finger tips, legs & feet LAC « Result #16 Yesterday at 9:50am »
Quote:
Beebs,
Any comment on the DHA/EPA or the contrast dyes and mito disorders? I haven't seen any info on this.
If there is a Carnitine dysfunction, would this not affect fatty acid transport into the mitochondrial matrix? Sorry, I am not a scientist, it is quite difficult and complex, aghhh.
Scientific articles concerning fatty acids oxidation are focused on inherited genetic markers rather than on acquired. The mechanism, symptoms and causes differ and manifestation of symptoms vary.
Would this account for some of us having difficulties with Omega 3, 6 and 9? I can't seem to metabolize these. With EPA/DHA - the symptoms with me are some type of strange breathing problems. Omega 6 increases/triggers seizures, and other symptoms, which I can't quite remember.
I read on one site that those with FOD should avoid oils. Unfortunately, I can't find it.
It could be also that we are very low on Vitamin C, which is needed to synthethesize Carnitine. Or some other metabolic dysfunction with Vitamin C and Carnitine which then results in difficulties with fatty acids, resulting in metabolic syndromes?
What is causing altered glucose metabolism for so many of us?
Concerning Imaging Contrast Dye, my own experience is that it caused my kidneys to fail, and three others I know suffered the same as well as hypothyroidism, and severe hypoglycaemia. There is a post somewhere on the forum concerning contrast dye. If I remember correctly, in some instances, contrast dye can cause life threatening hypoglycaemia. Looking at the lit on contrast dye, it is made out to be safe, but far from it, it is not!!
I was injected with Thallium twice. I can't help thinking that it contributed to being debilitated and iller!!
I will post more about contrast dye and the possible damage which may take years to manifest.
Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2009 Apr 1;236(1):59-70. Epub 2009 Jan 24. Tl(I) and Tl(III) activate both mitochondrial and extrinsic pathways of apoptosis in rat pheochromocytoma (PC12) cells.
Hanzel CE, Verstraeten SV.
Department of Biological Chemistry, IIMHNO (UBA) and IQUIFIB (UBA-CONICET), School of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, University of Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Thallium (Tl) is a highly toxic metal though yet its mechanisms are poorly understood. Previously, we demonstrated that rat pheochromocytoma (PC12) cells exposure to thallous (Tl(I)) or thallic (Tl(III)) cations leads to mitochondrial damage and reduced cell viability. In the present work we comparatively characterized the possible pathways involved in Tl(I)- and Tl(III)- (10-100 muM) mediated decrease in PC12 cells viability. We observed that these cations do not cause cell necrosis but significantly increased the number of cells with apoptotic features. Both cations lead to Bax oligomerization and caused apoptosis inducing factor (AIF), endonuclease G (Endo G), and cytochrome c release from mitochondria, but they did not activate caspase dependent DNAse (CAD). Tl(I)- and Tl(III)-dependent caspases 9 and 3 activation followed similar kinetics, with maximal effects at 18 h of incubation. In addition, Tl(I) promoted phosphatidylserine (PS) exposure. Tl(III) induced 2- and 18-fold increase in Fas content and caspase 8 activity, respectively. Together, experimental results show that Tl(I) and Tl(III) induce PC12 cells apoptosis, although differential pathways are involved. While Tl(I)-mediated cell apoptosis was mainly associated with mitochondrial damage, Tl(III) showed a mixed effect triggering both the intrinsic and extrinsic pathways of apoptosis. These findings contribute to a better understanding of the mechanisms underlying Tl-induced loss of cell viability in PC12 cells. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19371....m&o rdinalpos=3 or http://tinyurl.com/ybrtkgq
Quote:
It's interesting about the steriods, would like to understand how they can contribute because I was doing ok one month post floxing (I guess except for the extreme out of nowhere allergic r eaction that caused me to take the prednisone) but following a one week course of a fairly high dose of prednisone all heck broke loose - have all sorts of symptoms of CFS now as well as possible mito disorder (though I think CFS is due to mito disorder in many cases) Thanks, Velha
Because I tend to read articles written by opponents of steroids, I can't see any benefits of steroid therapy!! Except perhaps if suffering from Addison's disease, but even, then, they may be other options not explored.
I was offered Predisone for allergies, but refused. I didn't want to add more ill health, I know someone in my CFS group who is now in a wheelchair, very debilitated following a course of steroids.
Some report increase of CNS and even psychosis with steroids, inhaling, cream or whatever else, even on low dose or a single dose!
I may be a stuck in the mud, and a merchant of gloom concerning medications, the fact is that a large percentage of the population are not genetically perfect. I hasten to add that my healthy friends all disagree with me, and often take meds for headaches, or pain here & there. They give cough meds to their children to my horror, paracetamol for fevers, and vaccines for "protection."
Medications are not designed for the population with genetic variants, thus causing iagrogenic ill health, according to some sources, the No. 1 cause of death. Very few, less than 10% of the population are able to metabolize meds without suffering side effects or secondary damage years later. We are all different genetically, ethnicity, diet, weather, other variables such as paediactrics, puberty, adult, menopause, andropause, gender, weight, co mobidity, etc.... all contribute to pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics.
The rest of the population suffer from varying severity of side effects, either significant or non significant, primary or secondary, immediately or years later, and still don't make the connection.
Yes, another rant about meds ..
"Far from being a wonder drug "cure all", steroids cannot cure one single condition. All they do is suppress your body's ability to express a normal response. In a few instances, this type of suppression will give the body a chance to heal itself. But more often, the effect is immediate, devastating and permanent damage. And we are only now realizing just how quickly damage can occur. Despite what doctors say, that steroids only have side effects after many years of use, there is no such thing as a safe dose.
Studies show that steroids cause permanent, debilitating effects after a single dosage. "Steroids are probably the most sleazy of modern day medications," says John Mills, former professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco and chief of infectious diseases at San Francisco General Hospital.
Although steroids are used for virtually all types of inflammatory and autoimmune illnesses, they have not been subjected to long term scientific study to find out how or whether they work for specific conditions. Septic shock and adult respiratory distress syndrome are two conditions where steroids were widely used as treatment until scientific trials demonstrated that they were not only of no benefit, but may actually have been doing harm (Science, 1990; 250: 1196-8).
Unlike with antibiotics, steroids are all broad spectrum that is, they don't specify simply the area of the body you wish to treat, but scatter effects through every cell the central nervous system, cells in bone, smooth muscle, blood, liver and a number of other organs of the body (The Lancet, March 9, 1996). Doctors have been trying to rearrange the chemistry of cortisone, to make it more specific to certain parts of the body. However, thus far, this goal has proved elusive; new side effects appear with new preparations and doctors complain that more research is needed into its effects (Europ Resp J Suppl, 1989; 6: 566s-567s). http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.aspx?Id=6656&xcntr=1
But for 30 years we've known that steroids can routinely cause over activity of the adrenal hormones, which produces Cushing's disease, characterized by a fat abdomen and face, and buffalo hump in the back of the neck, high blood pressure and muscle weakness. They can also cause muscle wasting, hyperglycemia, water retention, skin atrophy, bruising and stretch marks, insomnia, serious mood changes, symptoms of schizophrenia or manic depression ("steroid psychosis"), osteoporosis, cataracts or glaucoma, menstrual problems, impotence, loss of libido or even allergic shock, recurrent thrush of the mouth, and diabetes (Physician's Desk Reference).
Side effects common
Gasp, the British Group against Steroid Prescriptions, recently polled its 15,000 members to document just how common these side effects are. In their study, they discovered that at least [color=Blue]70 per cent or more[/color] of the group suffered weight gain, bruising, pain (to back and legs) even though steroids are routinely prescribed for back pain muscle weakness and mood swings. Two thirds complained of moon face, headaches, fluid retention, slowness in healing, thinning skin, depression, and headaches. A full half reported they'd developed osteoporosis, and the same percentage, memory loss, headaches, light sensitivity and loss of sex drive. A third complained of buffalo hump, stretch marks and high blood pressure. Almost a quarter had cataracts. Over half the women complained of facial hair growth, and a quarter had period problems. Others complained of psychosis, damage to the immune system, angina and hair loss.
Most significantly, more than half the members had never been warned of these potential side effects. In another survey, of 104 patients, only 63 (or less than two thirds) recalled any advice from their doctor on potential side effects (BMJ, 1996; 312: 542-3).
The most worrying aspect of steroids concerns the possibility that your pituitary gland will stop producing ACTH, a hormone which regulates the adrenal glands, needed by the body during stress and to fight infections. Once you're on steroids, it can be impossible to stop.
Patients on steroids for [color=Red]prolonged periods can turn into steroid "junkies" unable to withdraw from taking the drugs; when the body is flooded with extra cortisone, the adrenal glands decrease their own output sometimes to zero.[/color]
Deaths from lack of adrenal gland function have occurred when patients have switched from oral to inhaled steroids without overlapping the drugs. Doctors now know that you must gradually withdraw steroids, so your adrenals will start making cortisone on their own again, but this process is extremely slow; for patients on long term use, it could take up to two years for the body to produce enough adrenal hormone to respond to extra stress from an illness or an accident. Surgeons often give steroids to such patients for operations, but this means that weaning has to begin all over again.
Doctors also like to pretend that if you inhale or rub on steroids, you are less likely to suffer side effects. But new evidence shows that inhaled steroids are not as harmless as medicine previously supposed. The consensus up until now has been that beclomethasone dipropionate (BDP) of 400-800 micrograms daily is appropriate for the three to five year old age group. However, a group of pediatric consultants from various hospitals in Britain showed that this dose was every bit as powerful as 20 times more of the oral variety in suppressing the adrenal and pituitary glands (The Lancet, December 14, 1991). This dosage has also produced significant growth retardation in children" http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.aspx?Id=6656&xcntr=5
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
HELP! Stop the breakdown of cartilage? « Result #17 Yesterday at 4:37am »
My cartilage seems to be progressively getting eaten away as the weeks go on here. I'm now having terrible joint pains in all fingers, my toes, both elbows and now my knees. From what I understand, quins interfere with the metabolism of cartilage and in doing so can prevent cartilage from being repaired. So are there any supps I can take which would BLOCK this from further happening? It may be too late, but I'm desperate to stop the cartilage damage/joint pain from getting any more severe than it already is. I've been taking glucosemine/chond/msm since the very start and it's done NOTHING.
Thanks
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 4:39am by economywater »
Re: Oily skin anyone? « Result #18 Yesterday at 2:50am »
So, this problem seems to be common among us.
For me it's getting unbelievably bad. You won't even believe how much oil my skin produces. I'm washing my face and two hours later it has a greasy shining layer on top of it. I'm like an oil producing factory.
I have a full blown seborrheic dermatitis and some pimples. The problem is that I almost can't treat my skin with anything as I think I'm developing rosacea as well and it's so sensitive that it gets red super easily. The dilated capillaries thanks to Avelox of course contribute for this big time.
Sometimes my nose would get red when I start eating and I'm not talking about spicy foods. Other times it would get red when I wash my face with water.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: Who here "confronted" the doctor who floxed th « Result #19 Yesterday at 2:24am »
Sarah,
It's really not about me, it's about the next patient who unsuspectingly ends up floxed because of him. I trusted my doctor to give me the best drug for my situation. Knowing what I know now, he did not do that. There were INFINITELY safer alternatives for my "possible" bacterial infection that would have been just as good at treating me. And that is what he needs to be made aware of. Maybe if I bring to his attention what has happened to me, he'll think a bit harder next time before instinctively reaching for the Cipro without considering his other options. And at the very LEAST he could inform his patients of the possible SERIOUS risks from taking this drug--which he did not do with me. Perhaps by writing him I can prevent this from happening to someone else. And perhaps not. But at least I will have tried.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 2:35am by economywater »
Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 23 Karma: 0
Re: Who here "confronted" the doctor who floxed th « Result #20 Yesterday at 1:05am »
I'm with Matt, I don't blame the doctor who gave me the Avelox, nor am I angry or feel that he didn't follow procedure.
I didn't confront him, what would be the point? Doctors see hundreds of patients, that all react differently to different medication. I had a reaction to a drug, I'm in the minority-that same drug has helped a lot of people as well. The same can be said for most all prescription medication out there. There are some drugs in circulation that even list cancer as a side effect. People die from all sorts of drugs that are currently on the market. Whenever you take any prescription medication there is a risk of side effects.
I think the best thing you can do is report your reaction to the FDA or whatever drug company report system your country has and then let it go. Try and move on and move past it, if you don't, then how can you expect to ever make peace with it and heal?
Re: Who here "confronted" the doctor who floxed th « Result #21 on Dec 5, 2009, 9:22pm »
Jeff,
I am sorry to read of your plight. I have read many of your posts on the Yahoo forum.
A little over three years after my reaction I went to see the doctor that prescribed the Levaquin to me. I had Dr. Cohen and Dr. Plumb's article with me along with some other fluoroquinolone toxicity literature. He actually seemed a little miffed that I was there to see him. He said he was sorry this happened to me but he kept saying that what he did was the appropriate course of action. The sad thing is that he didn't want to read any of the literature that I had. It may have helped him change his prescribing habits and not use these antibiotics on a first-line basis.
He seemed more concerned about his situation than mine. You would think that doctors would at the very least be a little bit curious about literature concerning this toxicity. Especially when it is published by medical doctors and that it might prevent long term injury to their other patients.
I hope you get some tolerable level of recovery soon Jeff.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Best form of topical magnesium? « Result #22 on Dec 5, 2009, 7:10pm »
I bought some liquid topical magnesium chloride, but I see there's also liquid magnesium citrate (which I'm not sure is effective topically or not?). Anyone know the best kind to apply to sore tendons/muscles? And what's the best kind to take internally, for that matter? I get confused by all the different types, and I've read that magnesium oxide (cheap drug store stuff) doesn't get absorbed well.
« Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 7:11pm by economywater »
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: If I MUST take an anti-depressant, which one? « Result #23 on Dec 5, 2009, 6:58pm »
VERY confused. I don't know what's causing what, here. That's why I'm just gonna break down and go get a bone scan. I don't even know what to think anymore.
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,835 Karma: 60
Re: If I MUST take an anti-depressant, which one? « Result #24 on Dec 5, 2009, 6:43pm »
Quote:
Thanks for responding, beebs. I'm fighting like hell to stay off of any sort of anti-depressants. I've been on them before and know how hard they are to go on/go off of. And that was in my natural, healthy state. I just don't think now is the time to be f*cking with my brain, although I do know I need help getting through this mentally.
I hear you on that one, yes, it is very very hard ... might be worth trying what Roobear suggested?
Quote:
As far as reactive arthritis, are you saying that the Cipro could have triggered that? Is RA something that would probably go away in time then, given it was brought on by the Cipro? I'm also on Septra right now for my prostatitis, so there's a chance that is causing it too. I tried going off the Septra to find out, but my prostatitis came back with a vengeance so I said "Screw this" and went back on. I just pray it's not PERMANENT arthritis in my joints from Cipro eating away at the collagen in my fingers and toes.
It would be conjecture in this case. We don't know if it is RA or floxing at this point. If it is RA, could be microbes or viral. From my own observations and from various reading articles, it seems, that despite taking antibiotics, infections recur, months or a few years later!
Did your doctor suggest it was arthritis you suffer from? Or do you think it is Cipro? What I meant basically, is that taking antibiotics can rev up some infections, which in turn can cause RA. But then, you may not have RA.
Frankly, when reading peer reviewed articles about antibiotics or medication, they are often contradictory according to the politics of the day!! An article of Antibiotics for RA: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/507250_6
Quote:
I'm not sure the exact tests I've had done for Reiter's...I'd have to look. I just went back yesterday and had some more bloodwork done, although I have no idea what the test were for (probably just another waste of money). If I could somehow get rid of this arthritis it would give me so much hope that I'll be able to pull through this and someday have a normal life again.
My friend's little four year old girl developed some type of RA. Her right ankle was swollen near the joints. She was taken to hospital. Tests were negative, but they treated her on high dose of IV antibiotics for RA. My friend does not know which IV antibiotics they used on her little girl!! It could have been viral. The little girl continues to have those symptoms. Anecdota. LIkewise, I have a friend who had a UTI. It migrated to the joints in her foot. Instead of the doctor focusing on the UTI, he gave her Diclofenac. She suffered severe side effects from the Diflo.
I guess what I am saying here, is that time and time again and again, I see this happening, misdiagnosis, and wrong treatment.
Equally, prostatitis, chemoprophylaxis antibiotics are prescribed. Imagine, how it is supposed to go into deep tissues and supposedly kill of offending bacteria. Yet, time and time, the prostatitis recurs.
It is questionable that chronic prostatitis is even infectious, excluding sudden onset of prostatitis. See this article, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410204thus It is shocking that many are being prescribed toxic chemoprophylactic antibiotics, when the debate concerning infectious pathogens involved in chronic prostatitis or chronic pelvic syndrome? Even, when cultures are negative, or perhaps not doing the right test for E.Coli or Staph. But then again, to complicate matter further, tests are not reliable. Or often, tests are not targetting specific infectious pathogens.
Similar for cystitis, some of us having recurring cystitis despite taking antibiotics.
To complicate matters further, I read some article about antibiotics causing pelvic pain syndrom. Confused I am,
Okay good, so this isn't PERMANENTLY aging my skin then? Internally I feel like I've been put in a time machine and cranked up 100 years already, I certainly don't want to LOOK like I've been put in a time machine!
LOL, not at all, your skin will revert to what it was ...
Hope others write up about weird skin reactions, for added reassurance.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: Skin no longer "bounces back" « Result #26 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:36pm »
Okay good, so this isn't PERMANENTLY aging my skin then? Internally I feel like I've been put in a time machine and speed up 100 years already, I certainly don't want to start LOOKING like I've been put in a time machine t00!
« Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 5:54pm by economywater »
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: If I MUST take an anti-depressant, which one? « Result #27 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:33pm »
Thanks for responding, beebs. I'm fighting like hell to stay off of any sort of anti-depressants. I've been on them before and know how hard they are to go on/go off of. And that was in my natural, healthy state. I just don't think now is the time to be f*cking with my brain, although I do know I need help getting through this mentally.
As far as reactive arthritis, are you saying that the Cipro could have triggered that? Is RA something that would probably go away in time then, given it was brought on by the Cipro? I'm also on Septra right now for my prostatitis, so there's a chance that is causing it too. I tried going off the Septra to find out, but my prostatitis came back with a vengeance so I said "Screw this" and went back on. I just pray it's not PERMANENT arthritis in my joints from Cipro eating away at the collagen in my fingers and toes.
I'm not sure the exact tests I've had done for Reiter's...I'd have to look. I just went back yesterday and had some more bloodwork done, although I have no idea what the test were for (probably just another waste of money). If I could somehow get rid of this arthritis it would give me so much hope that I'll be able to pull through this and someday have a normal life again.
Cool, thanks. Yea--I too have always been very careful with my skin...didn't go out in the sun, etc, and now I'm wondering if that played a part in me becoming floxed (low Vitamin D levels). I hate to think something I was doing for my health may have ended up being detrimental to it. I'll look into some topical vitamin products, although I remember reading that topical vitamin C doesn't stay "active" for very long. Have you read anything lie that? WOW I just looked up that stuff you use...$100+!? I'm unemployed! What's a cheaper option? lol
To keep facial skin smooth, spead honey on skin for 20 mins, then wash off, yummy. Or spread egg yolk, do the same. Skin creams, hum, I hope expensive does not means better!! Lancome Nutrix moisturiser is nice, specially on dry skin.
I like Japanese skin care prods, they are not as toxic and lighter on the skin: http://shopping.yahoo.com/t-Skin-Care/japanese It is possible to find eye serum and/or gel in health food shops. Japanese on line shops, sell their eye serum for cheaper!
Apparently, Omega-5 is excellent for skin: http://pomega5.com/ I haven't tried this one yet. I am using Lancome's Nurix, which works well. Another site with seemingly interesting prods: http://www.beautynaturally.com/
Emu oil is good from what I heard. Cheaper alternative, is pure Vitamin E oil, just as good. But then again, oil should be avoided for blocked pores, black heads, pimples or oily skin!
As for those skin changes, they will revert back to "normal", eventually aghhh
Exfoliating with oats mixed with a little water, is cheap and effective!
Warm Pure clay, is good for removing toxins from skin, for dry skin, algaes is a good alternatives.
Anyone else with tips for keeping healthy glowing skin whilst morphing??
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: Michigan Karma: 0
Re: Skin no longer "bounces back" « Result #29 on Dec 5, 2009, 3:36pm »
Cool, thanks. Yea--I too have always been very careful with my skin...didn't go out in the sun, etc, and now I'm wondering if that played a part in me becoming floxed (low Vitamin D levels). I hate to think something I was doing for my health may have ended up being detrimental to it. I'll look into some topical vitamin products, although I remember reading that topical vitamin C doesn't stay "active" for very long. Have you read anything lie that? WOW I just looked up that stuff you use...$100+!? I'm unemployed! What's a cheaper option? lol
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 519 Location: Cardiff Karma: 11
Re: Skin no longer "bounces back" « Result #30 on Dec 5, 2009, 3:17pm »
Oral Vitamin C wont do much good for skin because the concentration wont be high enough... for the face you need something like;
Skin Ceuticals C E Ferulic
I've just started using it. You obviously have very good skin from your picture... hopefully quins wont affect your skin health long term, but using a topical vitamin C serum is probably a good idea, it can boost collagen synthesis by 3x or so.
Lots of fruits and vegetables, and white tea / green tea are good for collagen. Check out my blog sometime!
I've just started using Skin Ceuticals C E Ferulic today, it's quite expensive though. I'm over 25 years old but always get mistaken for being around 16-17 years old... so quinolones haven't really 'aged' me in that way. But I always look after my skin, avoid sun, eat very healthy etc etc...
That particular product is the only one which really has a lot of solid science behind it, and testing.
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I know someone in my CFS group who is now in a wheelchair, very debilitated following a course of steroids.
and often take meds for headaches, or pain here & there. They give cough meds to their children to my horror, 
paracetamol for fevers, and vaccines for "protection." 
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Everyone ignore my last post I didn't know what I was talking about...which is nothing new!
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Or spread egg yolk, do the same. Skin creams, hum, I hope expensive does not means better!! Lancome Nutrix moisturiser is nice, specially on dry skin.